Moral_ 17 hours ago

SEAR and the Apple team does an excellent job of security on iOS, and should be commended greatly on that.

Not only are they willing to develop hardware features and plumb that throughout the entire stack, they're willing to look at ITW exploits and work on ways to mitigate that. PPL was super interesting, they decided it wasn't 100% effective so they ditched it and came up with other thigs.

Apple's vertical makes it 'easy' to do this compared to Android where they have to convince the CPU guys at QC or Mediatek to build a feature, convince the linux kernel to take it, get it in AOSP, get it in upstream LLVM, etc etc.

Pointer authentication codes (PAC) is a good example, Apple said f-it we'll do it ourselves. They maintained a downstream fork of LLVM, and built full support, leveraged in the wild bypasses and fixed those up.

  • dagmx 17 hours ago

    One of the knock on benefits of this too is increased security across all platforms as long as someone exercises that code path on one of apples new processors with a hardened runtime.

    In theory it makes it easier to catch stuff that you can’t simply catch with static analysis and it gives you some level of insight beyond simply crashing.

  • devttyeu 7 hours ago

    And after all that hardcore engineering work is done, iMessage still has code paths leading to dubious code running in the kernel, enabling 0-click exploits to still be a thing.

    • aprotyas 6 hours ago

      That's one way to look at it, but if perfection is the only goal post then no one would ever get anywhere.

    • walterbell 2 hours ago

      Disable iMessage via Apple Configurator MDM policy and enable Lockdown Mode.

      • Citizen8396 an hour ago

        I imagine the latter is sufficient.

        PS: make sure you remove that pesky "USB accessories while locked allowed" profile that Configurator likes to sneak in.

    • wat10000 an hour ago

      What's the dubious code?

      Running something in the kernel is unavoidable if you want to actually show stuff to the user.

  • pjmlp 10 hours ago

    Google could have added MTE for a couple of years now, but apparently don't want to force it on OEMs as part of their Android certification program, it is the same history as with OS updates.

    • kangs an hour ago

      to be fair, most of MTE's benefit is realized by having enough users running your apps with MRE enabled, rather than having it everywhere.

      This is because MTE facilitate finding memory bugs and fixing them - but also consumes (physical!) space and power. If enough folks run it with, say Chrome, you get to find and fix most of its memory bugs and it benefits everyone else (minus the drawbacks, since everyone else has MTE off or not present).

      trade offs, basically. At least on pixel you can decide on your own

  • alerighi 6 hours ago

    They do that now because they care about your security, but to make it difficult to modify (jailbreak) your own devices to run your own software that is not approved by Apple.

    What they do is against your interests, for them to keep the monopoly on the App Store.

    • EasyMark 5 hours ago

      It can be both things, security and user lock in, those are orthogonal goals.

bfirsh 2 hours ago

Whenever I read about it, I am surprised at the complexity of iOS security. At the hardware level, kernel level, all the various types of sandboxing.

Is this duct tape over historical architectural decisions that assumed trust? Could we design something with less complexity if we designed it from scratch? Are there any operating systems that are designed this way?

  • Citizen8396 an hour ago

    Vulnerabilities are inevitable, especially if you want to support broad use cases on a platform. Defense-in-depth is how you respond to this.

  • MBCook an hour ago

    iOS is based on MacOS is based on NeXT is a Unix.

    It’s been designed with lower user trust since day one, unlike other OSes of the era (consumer Windows, Mac’s classic OS).

    Just how much you can trust the user has changed overtime. And of course the device has picked up a lot of a lot of of capabilities and new threats such as always on networking in various forms and the fun of a post Spectre world.

  • kangs an hour ago

    why not do both :)

    I think that there's also inherent trust in "hardware security" but as we all know its all just hardcoded software at the end of the day, and complexity will bring bugs more frequently.

  • encom 2 hours ago

    Security in this context means the intruder is you, and Apple is securing their device so you can't run code on it, without asking Apple for permission first.

    • thewebguyd 30 minutes ago

      It can be both.

      Any sufficiently secure system is, by design, also secure against it's primary user. In the business world this takes the form of protecting the business from its own employees in addition to outside threats.